Having fun, fostering community, and eating TERFs: In Conversation with Juno and Andrew of Chinese Medicine
Photo credit: Taija Grey
Chinese Medicine burst onto the Toronto punk scene four years ago and have been a force to be reckoned with ever since. The band - made up of lead vocalist and guitarist Juno Hailey, guitarist Andrew Pearson, bassist Jack-James Lemaire, and drummer Stefan Hegerat - kick out songs that marry post-punk, hardcore punk, and garage rock together to create an urgent, cathartic sound that has continued to grow since the release of their debut EP Die Aspora.
Recorded during a whirlwind day and a half at Palace Sound and produced by Graham Walsh of Holy Fuck, their sophomore EP The Trans Agenda (out May 16 via Twin Fang Records) showcases this growth and then some. The arrangements are inventive and sharp, complementing the emotions contained within the lyrics perfectly whether they are taking aim at the church’s hypocrisy on the furious “Gospel”, talking about family dynamics on the poignantly intense “Speaking in Silence”, or embracing self-acceptance on the joyful “Project Runway”. The band’s collaborative side also shines through on songs like “Acetone” which finds Juno and Andrew sharing vocal duties as well as “Total Happiness” which features guest vocals from Shiv Scott of fellow Toronto punks (and Twin Fang label mates) Shiv and The Carvers.
The energy of The Trans Agenda cannot be overstated. It is impossible not to move in some way or feel the urge to throw down in a moshpit while listening to this record. It leaves no doubt that Chinese Medicine are one of the most vital punk bands active today and couldn’t have arrived at a better time.
REVERIE contributor Em Moore caught up with Juno Hailey and Andrew Pearson to talk about what went into capturing their live energy, the evolution of the songs on The Trans Agenda, existing under capitalism, the importance of community, and so much more.
REVERIE: You recorded The Trans Agenda live off the floor in just a day and a half. What was this experience like?
Juno: It was wild and it was a lot! [laughs] We did the beds for 9 songs in one day and it was a lot of work but it was fun. I feel like the goal of this album was to bring the energy from our live shows and put it in there. It was really easy to do that when we were all playing together. For me, as someone who will hyperfixate on everything being perfect, there was really no time to do that so it was nice to be like, “It is what it is and let’s go”.
Andrew: We wanted to be as raw and as authentic as possible, like if you come to a show, this is what you’re going to get. All the little blemishes and all the little mistakes added to the authenticity of it in a weird way. It’s supposed to be really in your face, really garage rock-y and really punk. I think among other things doing it quickly it saved us money. [laughs] When you have monetary constraints you need to find unique ways of approaching creativity and I think it created a really scrappy package which I’m pretty proud of.
Juno: I’m definitely proud of it. It helps that these are songs we’ve been playing for a long time so it was pretty easy to go and do our thing. “Total Happiness” is a song that me and Andrew wrote 4 years ago.
Andrew: I remember the first gig that we ever played, Dan [Aguiar], from Waste Youth out of Toronto, filled in for us on drums. We played “Total Happiness” and we didn’t play it again for years. Recently, Dan saw it and was like, “Hey, that’s from the first show, I love that song!” [laughs]
Juno: I think with that song specifically, breathing new life into it is the best way to describe it because it kind of died. It was a song that I’ve always enjoyed but I felt like there was something missing. It wasn’t until Shiv [Scott, of Shiv and The Carvers] jumped on the track that I was like, “Oh, this is actually one of my favourite songs”. I think she did like 2 takes when we were recording and was like, “That’s it!”
Andrew: We were like, “Wow, that sounds better than anything we’ve done today!”
REVERIE: How did the decision to work with Shiv come about?
Juno: I’ve been such a big fan of Shiv forever. One day she reached out to me and was like, “I like your music, let’s be friends!” and I was like, “I like your music, let’s be friends!” We immediately became really good friends and I started talking with her more about how she writes music, how she approaches music, and the things she wants to do with the Carvers. I was listening to “Only Got One Body” when I was walking to work one day and I was like, “Her voice would be sick on ‘Total Happiness’! We should do that”. I texted Sarah, our manager, and was like, “What if we did a feature with Shiv?” and she was like, “Do it!” I texted Shiv and she was down. Then it just happened.
REVERIE: On that song you’re taking aim at the broken values of the capitalist system. What helps you push back against the constant drive for profit and reclaim your lifeforce?
Andrew: Ultimately, capitalism just doesn’t work. I think we’ve all seen what it could be and the potential that people envisioned for it a long, long time ago but as things change with time, it’s not a system that serves the interests of all the people in the world. Yet at the same time, it’s something that people are so inherently stuck to and something that’s so attached to our overall wellbeing. The idea of “Total Happiness” is like, “Isn’t this what you want? If you have every single thing that you could possibly want from the capitalist system, what more could it give you?” The answer is nothing. It’s kind of working against you. The song is meant to be irony layered on top of irony with us screaming, “Stop! You can’t control this. Isn’t this exactly what you wanted? Why are you complaining?”
Juno: It’s interesting because we all have to participate in it. Being an artist and a creative - especially in the niche of queer, sapphic, trans punk and hardcore - and being anti-capitalist, I still have to go to my day job. If I want to make music full time, I have to find a way to pay for that. For example, we got new merch made and we want to sell it. We would love to make a profit, especially because that’s the only way that bands are making money now, but at the same time, I don’t want to price them higher than $25-20 because knowing our fanbase of young queer and trans people, money is not a thing that everyone has. It’s like, how do we find the balance to make people feel included and not alienate people? We’ll set our prices but when we announce shows we always add a clause that money is never a financial barrier to come; shoot us a DM and we’ll get you a spot. If money is the reason why you’re not participating in the community or coming to a show or getting a piece of merch, that’s a crazy thing that should never stop you. We’ll help you with that but we also advertise that if you can help us, this is the price that would really benefit us.
That open honesty with our community is something that has helped me navigate the shitty systems we unfortunately all have to be a part of. It is weird to sing songs about anti-capitalist stuff and then think about how you’re going to market it and make money off people because it’s not about that for me. The art is made to be consumed and for people to enjoy, not to be gatekept by something as stupid as money, which is not even real. [laughs] That’s how I think about it.
Andrew: Music is about communicating emotion and it’s weird to have so many financial barriers in the way of people being able to experience it. It doesn’t make sense.
Juno: In my experience organizing events, a PWYC option usually ends up making you either the same amount of money or more money than if you set a ticket price. I always find there are people who have the means who will overpay a little bit to compensate for the next person who can’t pay. I think if you do the work to be a part of a community and foster your space in that community, it all comes back around and they’re gonna support you every single time.
Andrew: Without fail. The community of people who come to our shows are truly the most passionate, caring, and kind people. I see them support each other so much both in the pit and online. It’s so gratifying.
Juno: I love it! It’s very overwhelming, to be honest.
REVERIE: What helps you keep the community aspect of your shows strong?
Juno: Being outspoken and being authentically ourselves allows for other people to be authentically themselves and be outspoken too. I just wanna have fun and if people are spending money to see you, you have to make it worth it. That could be someone’s last $20 or that could be someone’s only show they’re going to see that month. Even if it’s not and they have spendable income, they’re paying money to come see you and support you and you should really give that back. Onstage I really try to be as big and goofy as possible. I know especially with dancing, people can get self-conscious and don’t want to be looked at or perceived, but if I’m making a fool of myself and we’ll all having fun, then you guys can have fun! If people reach out to us like, “Hey, this happened at a show” or “We heard this about a venue” we always take that stuff really seriously and we always look into it. We just try to make ourselves open and accessible.
Andrew: And accountable. From the moment you walk in to the space to the moment you leave, it’s about treating everybody with as much kindness as possible. That really goes a long way whether it be people that came to see us or sound people or door people or bartenders. There’s so much that goes into producing these things and it’s so easy to take that for granted when you’re doing show after show after show. If you have an inside joke with your sound tech, your show will sound amazing.
Juno: As best you can, leave your ego at home. It’s all silly! We always talk about it like, “My job is to put on a silly little outfit, dance on stage for 30 minutes, and then leave?” Get over yourself and have some fun! Say hi to people and relax.
Andrew: Truly the more fun that you’re having the more fun the crowd is gonna have as well.
Juno: For so long punk was taken over by white cishet guys and queer punks didn’t often fit into those spaces, so being able to create a space where people can experience joy and the music and genre they love is huge. Everything is so fucked in the world and to have a space where all you need to worry about is having fun is nice, you get a little escape. I think fostering spaces for queer joy, and joy in general, is so important. If you do that, people want to support those places because there’s not a lot of that in life.
Andrew: Queer punk is so authentic to what the genre’s supposed to be, especially with all the bullshit in the world.
REVERIE: “The Trans Agenda” is pointing out all the absurdities about the way the media talks about trans people and people of colour. It opens with Juno doing a Joe Talbot impression and saying “I like Dairy Queen, I hate TERFs!” How did that come about?
Juno: When the song was first written and performed live, I’d give a little speech about why I wrote it or what we were saying with it, just a little something about the energy of the song. As it progressed through the shows, I was like, “I’m gonna refine it and figure out what I want to say” but I never did. When we got to recording it our drummer was like, “Are you gonna record your speech before the song? You should do it!” I was like, “Ok, I have nothing prepared”.
Andrew: That was the thing that took the longest that day.
Juno: Then it happened and now it’s in there. I like to think Joe would support it.
REVERIE: Juno, you’ve said that the EP started as a way for you to process emotions around your transition and it took on more weight with the sociopolitical climate. What song was the most cathartic to write? How has your relationship with the songs changed?
Juno: I would say “The Trans Agenda” for the most cathartic song if I had to pick. I think when that song was written, it really planted the seed of what this record was going to be. I was mad at work at a Ben Shapiro thing I saw online. I was in the bathroom trying to get away from customers and calm down and I started writing the song. It was something to get out there and maybe fill a hole in our set. I didn’t really think too much of it because it was something that came so quickly.
My relationships with the songs have changed a lot, especially with a song like “Total Happiness” which has existed for so long. I tend to not really think too much about what I’m writing when I’m writing it because I start to overthink everything and I don’t make any progress with anything because I just keep re-writing things. I’ll start writing, feel what’s good, and go, “Oh, this is probably what I was talking about”, then I’ll go in and refine some things. “Total Happiness” didn’t take on more weight of being trans, being queer, navigating spaces as a person of colour, and feeling different until I started working with Shiv on it. She made me go, “What’s this song about?” Then we started talking about it more. Even the juxtaposition between our voices is cool. There are two female singers on it and if you’re listening, one has a more masculine voice and one has a more traditionally feminine voice, but the sounds of those voices does not equate to their gender necessarily.
The way I approach all my music and all my art is that my feelings on it are going to change from year to year. Some things are going to stay the same but I like to think that I planted things in there that I’m going to discover as I listen to it later in the same way that someone who is in the audience would. For this record, the vibe was fast and angry. I had all this energy I wanted to get out and for me, that’s throwing down in a moshpit so I was like, “I should write songs where people can throw down in a moshpit because that’s what I want to get out”. The only song on the album that I was really consciously writing was “Speaking In Silence” because it’s about my dad and a specific thing my dad said to me. Other than that, the songs just flowed out and all of a sudden existed.
I also like leaving things a little ambiguous because I like that people can make up their own things about what songs mean. People get to take what they want and I don’t love the idea of being like, “This is exactly what this means and this is how this has to be interpreted”. Who cares? It means whatever you want, it’s up to your interpretation.
REVERIE: Which part of The Trans Agenda are you proudest of?
Juno: I’m proud of the fact that it exists and that we got to record it as a band. My proudest thing on it is probably “Acetone”. Me and Andrew have been playing music together for over a decade. I’ve always referred to him as my musical soulmate and that still rings true. Die Aspora was a collaboration between the two of us in a lot of ways, but my voice was the prominent one on it and when we recorded it, it was just me.
“Acetone” was a song that I wrote and I knew there was something good there but I couldn’t figure it out. Then Andrew wrote the chorus and sang it and that created a moment where I was like, “Oh, this is how Chinese Medicine is going to sound moving forward. Andrew’s going to be taking lead vocals more and letting his voice shine”. Moving forward, that’s something that we’re trying to incorporate a lot more. Getting to write this song that a lot of people really like with my brother was so awesome.
Andrew: That’s really nice! It’s hard to say what my favourite moment is because so much of your writing has so much depth to it. The ideas that you’re conceptualizing and your voice in the music is so interesting. For so many people it’s so relatable and it’s very brave that so many people can filter their own experiences through that.
I love “Speaking In Silence”. There’s a moment halfway through the song where we’re crashing on guitars and drums. I think in the recording it’s only for a couple of seconds but when we do it live, we’re always like, “Let’s draw this out for as long as we feel is right”. Sometimes it’s a couple minutes and sometimes it’s 10, it can be long! [laughs] It feels so incredible to have that shared moment of almost suspense in the middle of a song that thematically is so deep. It feels right and cathartic and, dare I say, healing in some way. It’s so much fun to listen to and it’s so much fun to play.
Album artwork credit to Bree Rawn
REVERIE: The Trans Agenda will be coming out on vinyl along with Die Aspora and this will be the first time your music will be available physically. What does this mean to you?
Andrew: It means my mom will finally hear it and I’m worried about what she’ll think.
[laughter]
Andrew: I’m a huge music nerd and having physical records has been something that's been very meaningful. I was really into YouTube and streaming and my way of supporting bands that I loved was to buy their records through indie music shops. To finally have our own records feels insane; I feel crazy that this is something that even exists! I’m such a fan of records in general so the fact that we have one makes me feel like I’m part of a club that I’ve always idolized so much.
Juno: I definitely echo that. I love vinyl but I don’t get too into it because I know I’m going to spend all my money on it and I can’t do that. [laughs] I have a handful of vinyl records that were my mom’s that she loved. She passed them down to me and I think it’s cool that vinyl is something that has been around forever and will keep being around, hopefully. Maybe some person will pass it down to their kid and be like, “This was a band from Toronto that I listened to back in the day”.
Chinese Medicine started with me being like, “I have to do this now or what am I doing with my life? I want to be a musician and I want to make art and I want to be part of a community.” It was very much out of desperation, I needed an outlet. Die Aspora came from a very dark place of me needing to process my transition. My goal was just to release something and then it started taking off. We got it produced with Wade [MacNeil, of Alexisonfire] and that led to the band being formed and that led to shows which led to more shows. Then we got a record deal. Now we’re at a place where we have vinyl, which is crazy.
The cover for Die Aspora was a photo a really good friend of mine took and another friend of mine made the lettering. The cover for The Trans Agenda was an idea we had and Bree Rawn - who is an amazing artist who we’re such fans of - nailed it in one take. I love art because it’s so collaborative and I love being in a band because it’s collaborative. That I get to have my friends’ artwork with my music as something that gets to hang in my house and I get to talk about my friend’s art with other people and their art gets to be out there is really fun. Getting to the point where we have vinyl feels like we’ve achieved a level that I never thought was possible. It’s a collection of songs that sound good because of the production Graham [Walsh, Holy Fuck] did - who we’re also really big fans of. It has art that one of our favourite artists did. It feels like a tangible thing of what the past two and a half years of diving into music has been.
Andrew: We’ve spent the last two years building this thing and it’s weird that it’s done and we have it. I’m really proud of it. It’s cool to have this thing in our hands and be like, “This is a culmination of a lot of work”.
Juno: At the beginning of the band, I just wanted to play shows. I want every show to be like the last show I might ever play because who knows there could be a pandemic, I could get sick, my voice could go, or whatever. Playing punk music as a trans BIPOC person fronting a band and singing about my experiences being trans and growing up in the church, I never really thought people would care about that. It was purely for me to release stuff and have fun with my buds.
Now, we have enough people that like our music that they’re buying vinyl records of it. I mean it’s a thin vinyl, but you’re spending money on that and it’s going in your house, you’re keeping that! If you’re gonna move your apartment, you’re going to take that with you. That’s fucking cool! Streaming stuff is easy, you have an infinite amount of space to stream things but to put money into something you’re gonna take care of and cherish it to some degree means something. I know that’s what I do when I buy merch and to think that someone is having that thought process about our stuff feels really cool and really humbling. I’m really grateful that we’re in a place where we can comfortably produce vinyl and people want it.
Link to EP on Bandcamp: https://chinesemedicine.bandcamp.com/album/the-trans-agenda